Seedfork said:I think it does and I have it in my garden!
Edited to add:
I guess I am not very observant.I often looked at Buttered Popcorn and admired the color and how it stood out in the garden. I don't think I ever realized one reason it did was because it was a complete self and that the total bloom being the same color seems to make the bloom stand out more.

ALL!

Okay, so the daylily dictionary gives the definition of a "self" and includes the description of a "complete self" in the same listing:
https://daylilies.org/daylily-...
SELF: "A flower having perianth segments all of the same color. The throat region can be a different color. In a complete self the segments, throat, pistil and stamens will all be the same color. Also see: Perianth segments, pistil, stamen, throat."

I don't see names on the pictures given with that description, but if you click on the yellow bloom, it says it is a complete-self. I believe the other picture is just a "self", not a "complete-self".

Looking up the definition of "complete-self", the ADS dictionary says:
COMPLETE-SELF: A flower having perianth segments, throat, pistil and stamens all the same color. Also see: Perianth, Pistil, Segment, Self, Stamen.
https://daylilies.org/daylily-...

So any bloom that has more than one color on it anywhere (other than the pollen, of course) would not be a complete-self.

blue23rose said:Okay, so the daylily dictionary gives the definition of a "self" and includes the description of a "complete self" in the same listing:
https://daylilies.org/daylily-...

I don't see names on the pictures given with that description, but if you click on the yellow bloom, it says it is a complete-self. I believe the other picture is just a "self", not a "complete-self".

The yellow bloom is 'Jerusalem' and the other one is 'Satanic Majesty'. When the Daylily Dictionary was being transferred to the new ADS site a few things didn't copy over so some captions are missing. This is being fixed but there's a lot to go through.

I've been searching my huge library of daylily pictures for complete selfs, and found that all are yellows or golds. I thought for sure there would be a red or two that would qualify, but I've yet to find one. There are numerous yellows/golds that qualify.
Kermit The Frog


The Wealth Of Gold


Kindling The Flame


Empire Of Desire


Here's some reds that come close:
Garnet Slippers


Christmas Greetings


Noble Warrior


And a few whites that come close:
Snow On The Mountain


Noble One


Knights In White Satin


Inimitable


Frostwork


The final analysis is: Selfs in Daylilies are not common, and Complete Selfs are pretty rare.

blue23rose said:Okay, so the daylily dictionary gives the definition of a "self" and includes the description of a "complete self" in the same listing:
https://daylilies.org/daylily-...
SELF: "A flower having perianth segments all of the same color. The throat region can be a different color. In a complete self the segments, throat, pistil and stamens will all be the same color. Also see: Perianth segments, pistil, stamen, throat."

I don't see names on the pictures given with that description, but if you click on the yellow bloom, it says it is a complete-self. I believe the other picture is just a "self", not a "complete-self".

Looking up the definition of "complete-self", the ADS dictionary says:
COMPLETE-SELF: A flower having perianth segments, throat, pistil and stamens all the same color. Also see: Perianth, Pistil, Segment, Self, Stamen.
https://daylilies.org/daylily-...

So any bloom that has more than one color on it anywhere (other than the pollen, of course) would not be a complete-self.

Yes, I messed up.Three Rivers Gold is not a complete self, the anthers are black. It is a self though. Sorry for the goof everyone.
There are some very nice complete selfs being shown in other posts. Kermit the Frog is gorgeous

@Char, oh I do think that Three Rivers Gold is a complete-self. Unless I am wrong, I don't think the anthers count.

I agree, the anthers are not listed.

Anthers are not listed separately, but a stamen has two parts....the filament and the anther. So if I'm reading the definition of a complete self correctly now black anthers on an otherwise totally yellow bloom would make it a self and not a complete self.

People don't seem to try and distinguish when registering, in fact there is only one daylily in the whole database that comes up on an advanced search for complete self, and that's the 2018 'Solar Scream'.

If that's the case, then that really narrows down the field considerably.

Also looking at the anthers of 'Solar Scream' they don't look yellow to me.

Sscape said:I've been searching my huge library of daylily pictures for complete selfs, and found that all are yellows or golds. I thought for sure there would be a red or two that would qualify, but I've yet to find one. There are numerous yellows/golds that qualify.

Kindling The Flame

• Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Kindling the Flame')
• Uploaded by Sscape

The final analysis is: Selfs in Daylilies are not common, and Complete Selfs are pretty rare.

First off, I'm in love with Kindling the Flame.

I guess I did well in the rare department, since 7 of my pre-2019 collection of 24 were complete selfs. I'm sure I picked them because A. I used to only be interested in solid-color flowers and B) I liked how much these stood out in the garden.

The fact that they are relatively rare had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I wouldn't say they're rare, searching the AHS database for selfs brings up nearly 26,000 cultivars. They presumably include "complete selfs". Although it might be that if you search by year the percentage of selfs being registered now might be declining compared to non-selfs.

I think two of my own seedlings might qualify as complete selfs.

SPACECOAST IRISH ILLUMINATION x MAGIC MANDOLIN


ORANGE BLOSSOM TRAIL x SPACECOAST COLOR SCHEME


What do you think? Does the green way down in the throat in the first one make a difference?

I think the green throat disqualifies it. But the second one looks like it meets all the criteria.

Betty they are beautiful !

josieskid said:Betty they are beautiful !

sooby said:I wouldn't say they're rare, searching the AHS database for selfs brings up nearly 26,000 cultivars. They presumably include "complete selfs". Although it might be that if you search by year the percentage of selfs being registered now might be declining compared to non-selfs.

I meant complete selfs in particular. Like you posted above, there's one daylily registered as a complete self. Many of those 26K selfs seem to have different-colored throats, or pistil and stamens, and so aren't complete selfs. THOSE are what I was referring to as rare.

There are indeed a lot of registered selfs, though. However, newer intros are seemingly veering away from selfs, based on perusal of hybridizers' websites.

I'd still love to see a complete self from the purple or red color families, if anyone knows of one.

Thanks!

MrKGDickie said:

I meant complete selfs in particular. Like you posted above, there's one daylily registered as a complete self. Many of those 26K selfs seem to have different-colored throats, or pistil and stamens, and so aren't complete selfs. THOSE are what I was referring to as rare.

I was referring to Greg's comment that was embedded in your post, i.e. that selfs are rare, and just pointing out that over a quarter of all registrations appear to be selfs. I actually didn't expect there to be that many, I don't know why because of course the original daylily species were yellow or orangey selfs, with the obvious exception of the fulvous species. Some of the registered selfs must be complete selfs but how many out of the 26k I have no idea.

I suspect that the term "complete self" is in the Daylily Dictionary because it came from the glossary of the 1968 Daylily Handbook. Examples of complete selfs given in the Handbook are 'Cartwheels' and 'Bride'. In the Handbook 'Frances Fay' and 'Queen of Hearts' are examples of just selfs.

Registration instructions only refer to "self", don't require registrants to distinguish, and obviously they haven't been doing so since the term has been around for decades yet there is only one registration using it, and that was as recently as 2018.