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Jan 13, 2023 4:55 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Teresa, hopefully MCG will have 'Rifka' available this year. It is in Europe and doing very well there. It has proven to be a tough semp for me in some very harsh weather. It produces well, has medium to large size and year round interesting colors.
Hen and Chicks (Sempervivum 'Rifka')
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Jan 13, 2023 11:22 PM CST
Name: Matt
Norfolk, Virgina (Zone 7b)
Sempervivums
DanielMoser said: What size pumice do you all recommend?
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We use the 3/8" size. But that seems like overkill?

Check out the gravel/well draining potting mix thread. Some people use much less expensive chicken grit from Southern States or Tractor Supply.

I was originally concerned about only getting dust with the smaller sizes of pumice, based on various reviews on various websites.

Do you have access to Permatill?
Expanded shale product mined and heat processed in North Carolina.
Tony Avent of Plant Delights recommends it.
Very inexpensive from Strange's Nursery in Richmond, Virginia (2 hours north of us)
They order it by the ton and bag it on site in heavy bags. $4.95 for a generous "40#" bag.

Recently purchased about 500 pounds from Strange's based on Tony Avent singing its praises.
I knew about it 20 years ago, when I was killing half hardy stuff that needed to be planted on a well draining berm, but never could find a source.
After 20+ years I'm into Plant Delights for about $1,000. Always amazing tiny plants. Often unavailable or even more expensive at other mail order locations.

Haven't had a chance to try the Permatill with anything yet.

Permatill looks crazily exactly like black pumice with a very faint Virginia green rock coloring.
Considering some really tacky checkerboard patterns on top of large pots.
😂


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Jan 14, 2023 2:01 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Matt, that is very interesting.
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Jan 14, 2023 9:53 AM CST
Surry county, NC (Zone 7a)
That is very interesting! Thank you Matt! I don't see anywhere on their site where you can order it. I might have to go with the pumice being so busy I'll have to have something very local or that can be ordered. That stuff looks and sounds awesome. That would make a nice top dressing! Is the 3/8 working well for you?
Avatar for DanielMoser
Jan 14, 2023 10:08 AM CST
Surry county, NC (Zone 7a)
I think I read somewhere on the soil thread that semp roots don't attach easily to perlite, like they would pumice. Pumice looks reasonably affordable here https://pumicestore.com/pumice... If I get a 45 lb bag I'm not sure how far that would go. My soil mix now is horrible, perlite and miracle gro. Impossible to get soil wet and when I finally do it takes forever to dry!
Last edited by DanielMoser Jan 14, 2023 10:09 AM Icon for preview
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Jan 14, 2023 11:26 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Daniel, if you look at your Miracle Grow, it is mostly peat. That is why you are having problems watering.
Avatar for norfolkgarden
Jan 14, 2023 11:00 PM CST
Name: Matt
Norfolk, Virgina (Zone 7b)
Sempervivums
DanielMoser said: That is very interesting! Thank you Matt! I don't see anywhere on their site where you can order it. I might have to go with the pumice being so busy I'll have to have something very local or that can be ordered. That stuff looks and sounds awesome. That would make a nice top dressing! Is the 3/8 working well for you?


I still haven't figured out a recipe/ingredients list that works best for southeast Virginia.

Honestly, getting them in the fall/winter and letting them settle in in our mild winter, before summer heat begins, seems to be the most important.
Definitely happy with the 3/8" pumice. Seems to work best at no more than 60 to 70% of total volume. (Some of our small clay containers are almost 90% pumice. That was definitely overkill. )
Rolling out the peat from MCG roots as soon as you get them (much easier to do it while they are still bone dry from shipping.) seems to be just as important.

I am still learning about
named semps. I have less than 3 years planting experience.
Still not happy with my results and nothing consistent yet!

Don't pot up your beautiful MCG semps without rolling out the peat moss propagation soil.
Beyond that, a few of the semps in the 3 year old 60/40 course sand/miracle grow potting soil are doing the best. Followed closely by 60/40 pumice/miracle grow potting soil.
No personal experience with chicken grit recipes or the Permatill yet.
Initial transplant time seems to be almost as important.
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Jan 15, 2023 8:30 AM CST
Fairfax VA (Zone 7a)
The best time of the year is when p
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Definitely remove that soil out. Here in VA for me at lesat it's a breeding ground for rot and funky stuff

My sedum is bouncing back, I think I've lost my Petros for good. My sedum japnocium tokyo sun is nearly 90%. mush. I think it's zone 8 so oopsies.
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I am very busy right now, sorry about that. I may not be online much.
Avatar for DanielMoser
Jan 15, 2023 9:18 AM CST
Surry county, NC (Zone 7a)
Great information Matt! Thank you! Some my semps are still planted with the lovely peat form MCG! It's a shame I didn't find this site before I planted my 70+ plants! I believe I'll try the 3/8 pumice and at 50-60% and try to find some composted bark as Lynn suggested for the other 50-40% Crossing Fingers!
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Jan 15, 2023 10:10 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
MCG uses coir. It does need to be removed before planting. When they arrive soak them to help remove the coir.
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Jan 15, 2023 10:13 AM CST
Surry county, NC (Zone 7a)
Just ordered the 45lb bag of 3/8 pumice! Hopefully that goes a long way!
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Jan 15, 2023 10:15 AM CST
Surry county, NC (Zone 7a)
Oh I assume that's just as bad as peat? I'm can't wait to get the soil changed. I hope I see a difference in growth this year.
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Jan 15, 2023 11:23 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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Jan 15, 2023 2:13 PM CST
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Container Gardener Foliage Fan Sempervivums Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Garden Ideas: Master Level
DanielMoser said: I hope I see a difference in growth this year.

My semps' recent "good" growth hasn't been about soil but about feeding. I've been in this location for over 6 years now and after potting up all about 200 semp cultivars in 2-4 inch pots with just morning exposure I've managed to keep 90% of them alive over the years. That's it. Not a lot of growth to the rosettes and not a lot of offsets (though I love colonies of semps).

Last year I broke down and decided to make a schedule for feeding between April and Sept and keep with it. I know you are probably asking what about soil with added fertilizer?...buying larger rosettes to start with?... feeding very regularly throughout the 7 months?... etc. Well, I wanted to take into consideration my lack of space given that there's no ground to plant in with this townhouse of mine. And with the limited space and thus limited size of pots I was using, I didn't want huge rosettes or countless numbers of offsets to have to repot.

To compromise, I only purchased/grew small to medium sized rosettes (though a crazy gardener supplied me with the mutant, "Steel Appeal"), I used potting soil with no fertilizer additives and I did not feed the semps.

So in 2022, I started feeding but decided to go with a seaweed/fish fertilizer plant food that has low NPK numbers. I saw good results for my situation: more offsets to start a "colony look" and more growth of the small-med. rosettes. Let's see what this year brings! Sorry no pictures to show...you have to take my word for it Green Grin!
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Jan 15, 2023 3:06 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
No photos???? Blinking
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Jan 15, 2023 3:33 PM CST
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Container Gardener Foliage Fan Sempervivums Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Garden Ideas: Master Level
*Blush* ... no photos Sighing!
To clarify...my expectations may be a lot lower than most of you semp growers out there (you know who you are: KV, LS, MH, JM CW, MS, etc). I know my limitations and so I have to set my expectations, accordingly
Last edited by webesemps Jan 15, 2023 3:38 PM Icon for preview
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Jan 15, 2023 3:44 PM CST
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Region: Pacific Northwest Sedums Sempervivums Lilies Hybridizer
Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Pollen collector Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Seriously, my expectations can't get any lower. Lots of rot and empty pots out there now...
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Jan 15, 2023 3:56 PM CST
Surry county, NC (Zone 7a)
Ah Bev I'd love to see some pictures! Haha! I also have a lack of space. I still want them to grow like crazy though! I'll definitely look into seaweed/fish fertilizer!
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Jan 15, 2023 5:37 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Daniel, set up a test to see what works best in your NC conditions.
Once you have repotted your semps set up two groups. One without fertilizing, the other fertilized.
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Jan 15, 2023 7:16 PM CST
Surry county, NC (Zone 7a)
Great idea! Thank you! That will be interesting expically with the plants I have a few pots of.

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