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Apr 20, 2024 11:03 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
I've grown my own tomatoes from seed for decades now (Sungold) but this year, after sowing March 30th and getting 100% germination 8 days later, my seedlings (covered, under lights as usual) - two weeks after appearance are still at the two seed leaf stage - no true leaves showing. Something is wrong Sad The only difference from past years is a new bag of seed starting mix. The seeds are from the same (bulk) pkt I have been sowing for the last 4 years. They are not leggy either.
Any suggestions as to how to jump-start these little things?
Thumb of 2024-04-20/Vals_Garden/77cddb
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Apr 20, 2024 11:50 AM CST
California Central Valley (Zone 8b)
Region: California
A new brand of seed starting mix or a new bag of the old stuff? Its amazing how much difference the seed starting mix can make on germination and growth. I thought it wouldn't matter what you started with as the seeds are living off the cotyledon for the first part of growth but it does. Maybe a weak watering of fertilizer?
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Apr 20, 2024 11:56 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
A newly purchased bag of seed-starting mix but I don't buy by the brand so it's anybodies! I've never fertilized either my seedlings or even mature plants, with no regrets I might add Rolling on the floor laughing
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Apr 20, 2024 12:07 PM CST
California Central Valley (Zone 8b)
Region: California
All other things equal, its either the seeds or the soil.
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Apr 20, 2024 12:12 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
Well that leaves the soil as I've been working with this same bulk bag of Sungold seeds for 4 years now. I might re-pot before the true leaves appear if only to try and get tomatoes before December D'Oh!
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Apr 20, 2024 12:14 PM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
See you in the funny papers!
Charter ATP Member Frogs and Toads Houseplants Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Region: Maryland
Composter Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Region: United States of America Cat Lover Birds
Could your seed area be colder this year than usual?
Plant it and they will come.
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Apr 20, 2024 12:25 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
Actually it's slightly warmer - around 20 C - possibly because the Grow-light is lower than usual, but it's also in a 20 C room daytime, lower at night.
Avatar for Heuchera
Apr 28, 2024 3:14 PM CST
Name: Ruth Moxom

I note that your seedlings are a bit spindly and wonder whether placing the lights closer would help. I used fluorescent lights and would cover the entire light with a big sheet of plastic to keep the heat in.
I've had Sungold in my garden and it grows quite tall. My plant had so many tomatoes that many fell to the ground.
The following year a few plants sprouted so I let them grow and they were Sungolds.
Ordinarily there's a 50-50 chance that a hybrid will grow new plants and stay true to its hybrid traits, but the ones that came up did.
The tomatoes on these plants are delicious and I've never seen a plant produce so many.
However, they can be dried and there are many recipes that use fresh cherry tomatoes to make a very delicious sauce for pasta.
I note you live farther north, and I was located in southern MA, so possibly this slight difference in heat zones may make a difference in the time when they sprout by themselves in a garden.
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Apr 28, 2024 3:24 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
Funny you should comment Ruth! I was just examining them today; they look exactly the same as they did a week ago, no taller (not spindly) and the leaves are quite thick for seedlings and are now going bronze at the tips so possibly not long to live. The lights are actually closer than I usually put them when I use my light garden, and I had a dome on the seed tray until a day or so ago. I have been growing the seeds from the same packet for 4 years now so perhaps it is a problem with the age of the seed - young enough to germinate, too old to do much more Rolling on the floor laughing
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Apr 29, 2024 8:57 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
Update - seedlings no bigger than they were when I posted this question 3 weeks ago so I dug one up and found the seedling had virtually no roots Blinking
As I am successfully growing Stipa gigantea from 2020 seed, in the same seed medium, I have to assume it is the age of the tomato seeds (seed harvested 2020) that is causing this. I have 20 seeds left for next year and will try again, but in a different seed starting mix with perhaps 2 seeds in this year's mix as a 'control'.
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Apr 30, 2024 8:58 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
Update from yesterday - because we know broken tomato stems will root in water I am conducting an experiment on the seedlings with no roots; I have dug them all up and repotted them right up to the leaves in a good soil mix and while I have missed this year for my own tomato plants it will be interesting if I can 'revive' these plants. Crossing Fingers!
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Jun 6, 2024 7:04 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
Update from April 30th - seedlings that germinated 8 weeks ago still look the same Rolling on the floor laughing
Thumb of 2024-06-06/Vals_Garden/ffec39

How is that even possible? Only one has made it to several true leaves, and is planted out.
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Jun 6, 2024 8:42 AM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
See you in the funny papers!
Charter ATP Member Frogs and Toads Houseplants Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Region: Maryland
Composter Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Region: United States of America Cat Lover Birds
Very weird, but that soil doesnt look real good to me. Shrug!
Plant it and they will come.
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Jun 6, 2024 9:17 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
It just rained but I assure you new seedlings and other plants love it - and this is not where the tomato seedlings came from anyway - I started the seeds in new seed starting mix. Sighing!
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Jun 6, 2024 9:48 AM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
See you in the funny papers!
Charter ATP Member Frogs and Toads Houseplants Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Region: Maryland
Composter Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Region: United States of America Cat Lover Birds
Ok, I trust you, pics are sometimes deceptive and you mentioned a new unknown bag of soil.. Shrug!
Plant it and they will come.
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Jun 6, 2024 4:27 PM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Enjoys or suffers hot summers Solar Power Seed Starter
Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover
Earlier it was mentioned that the problem was the seeds or the soil. You responded that it had to be the soil because you were working out of a bulk package of seeds that you've been using (apparently with good results) for the past four years. There are two aspects you can look at with seeds...germination rate and seedling *viability*. Just because the seeds sprout doesn't mean they will grow good. A seed that is getting along in age may germinate just fine...just as it has in the past. But...an older seed's viability to grow into a productive plant may not be good causing it to malinger around, growing slowly, and frustrating the grower.

I recently planted some 4-year-old Big Beef and Cupid cherry seeds that germinated in five days...the Big Beefs had a 75% germination rate and the Cupids an 83% rate. So far they're looking healthy, but time will tell me if the plants will be viable. The peppers (unsurprisingly) did not have as good of a germination rate. I've got them sitting beneath a bank of LED shop lights. I missed a day checking and they got a little leggy before moving close to the lights. If they don't show good growth in a week or so I'll be ordering some fresh seeds.

Here they are eight days after sowing:
Thumb of 2024-06-06/Intheswamp/e4c57a
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Jun 6, 2024 5:04 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
I agree Ed - I have come to that conclusion too but confused somewhat that even though they were replanted up to the top leaves in a good soil mix all they are doing is living and not growing Sad Of course it's an experiment now as too late for them to catch up Rolling on the floor laughing I will be sowing the last of the seed packet next year, in a new seed-starting mix, just to finish this experiment. I will also be sowing NEW seeds Rolling my eyes.
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Jun 7, 2024 10:14 AM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Enjoys or suffers hot summers Solar Power Seed Starter
Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover
How many sets of leaves do they have now? Any indication of branching?

I understand the experiment part...I think my garden's been one since I first broke ground on it!!! nodding
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Jun 7, 2024 10:34 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Region: Canadian Peonies Irises Daylilies Hybridizer Bulbs
Seller of Garden Stuff Plant and/or Seed Trader Bee Lover Birds Keeper of Koi
Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing (re. your garden has been an experiment) and Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing (re. any branching) Recognizing that the seed leaves are a sort of copper/brown/green colour, there are pin head - sized nubs of real green in the center now; sort of 'I'm thinking of growing but not sure yet'
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Jun 8, 2024 10:43 AM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Enjoys or suffers hot summers Solar Power Seed Starter
Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover
Actually my entire yard is an Auburn Experimental Station (not intentional, of course). Whistling Hilarious!

Just so I've got this right...the seedlings that are showing little green nubs of true leaves...these are the ones planted in April??? Confused

Vals_Garden said: Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing (re. your garden has been an experiment) and Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing (re. any branching) Recognizing that the seed leaves are a sort of copper/brown/green colour, there are pin head - sized nubs of real green in the center now; sort of 'I'm thinking of growing but not sure yet'

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